Curb and Canyon: A Porsche Podcast

Porsche nostalgia, road trip adventures, the art of customization and just calm the f*** down!

October 05, 2023 Andy Gaunt, James McGrath Season 3 Episode 11
Curb and Canyon: A Porsche Podcast
Porsche nostalgia, road trip adventures, the art of customization and just calm the f*** down!
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Welcome to another episode of Curb and Canyon! Come along with us as we reflect on a recent local car show that stirred up nostalgia-filled emotions with some epic examples of truly classic Porsches.

Swapping car show tales for adventure stories, we recount recent road trips and the thrill of maneuvering through curving backroads both through the Rocky Mountains of Colorado and Wyoming for James as well the Aussie bush for Andy. We also dive deep into a detailed chat about the intricacies of the 991 generations. For those Porsche nuts who love to compare, we've got you covered. 

Wrapping up the episode, we tackle a rather philosophical question - do we all need to calm the f*** down with Porsche?? Tune in, kick back and let's talk!

Speaker 1:

James McGraw, I am recording. Are you recording? I am.

Speaker 2:

I am. I am recording. Can I speak?

Speaker 1:

I don't know I can hear you, so I'm happy. And yes, you can indeed speak, my good friend let's get it on. It has. It's been a few weeks, hasn't it? But do you know what? We did actually catch up, though, on another podcast, did we not? Yeah, we did with the good folks over at the Porsche talk podcast, mark and Ashma. That was great, catching up with those dudes.

Speaker 2:

It was. It was a lot of fun that the carbon canyon takeover.

Speaker 1:

Although I must confess I felt bad because I recorded the way we normally record, but then Mark said it's not dying about, it's all good, I've got it sorted. And then I listen back and I'm like oh man, my audio quality was terrible.

Speaker 2:

Oh man, yeah, well, you know it is what it is. It's such great guys and what a great podcast and actually, with Mark being over in the States this this past week at Rensport reunion, he's he's had, you know, quite a few, quite a few good run ins. Have you been following him on social media?

Speaker 1:

I have, I see he, I see he even managed to record a pod with the one and only Matt Farah. That's, that's a great get.

Speaker 2:

I know right, so cool yeah, really really cool yeah yeah so what we got on our agenda today?

Speaker 1:

Oh plenty, school car shows your new car little green update. I want to talk about the winter rally. I'm going to ask a philosophical question and then we're going to talk about your video of the week my yeah, there's a funny story behind that little bit.

Speaker 2:

My video of the week quote unquote, but that's gonna be. It is good video.

Speaker 1:

So, just so you know, I've not updated the show notes from when I wrote these, from a few weeks ago, when we're going to record. So the show notes actually include a different video of the week. So it'll be interesting to see if you can just bring the ad lib magic when we get to the video of the week segment. I have high hopes. I'm really looking forward to it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we've got loads of time before we get to video of the week.

Speaker 1:

Everyone will have tuned out by then, don't worry. Well, let's talk about a school car show. This is a. This is one out of the box for me. If there's one thing I never thought I would be attending, it was a car meet at a school, and writer's school, which is a primary and high school, so I guess that's the equivalent, if you're in the states, of junior, middle and high school, all in one had a school car show for Father's Day, and it was. It was incredible. There was, there was live music, there was barbecue, there was a great mix of cars, you know there were. There were Lamborghinis, there were lotuses, there were minis, there was all sorts of stuff, but there was a. There's a 991 GT3 RS, there was a 73 9-11, there was a guards red 9-30 and, of course, I rolled up in little green and you know, I think one of the really cool things was it was a great vibe, not too many cars and this whole thing. It actually it was the idea of one of the students, a dude named A'Shan. So shout out to you, good sir, that's, you know, one hell of an effort to pull that together and it was. It was a really cool thing to go to my son's school, roll up with the car and walk around chatting to like-minded car enthusiasts.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's awesome, did you? Did you say a guards red 9-30? I did, I did. Wow, I mean that's, that's quite a special car.

Speaker 1:

It's a very that's like 80s poster car, right like it really does just tick, tick all the boxes. In terms of that, I don't know, just the whole sort of stereotypical Porsche from the 80s. That's the car, right like a red one or a black one, pretty much yeah, yeah absolutely, that's so cool. Yeah, yeah, I was hoping to get. There was a. There was a people's choice award and I was. I was hoping maybe little green might might come through it, come through with the goods and take home the Chockeys. But no, sadly. To be honest, when I rolled in I thought I could be, I could be a chance here. But then there was a 4488 or 458 I'm not good with my Ferraris but also there was a purple Lamborghini Aventador there. I think it was an Aventador and I thought as soon as I saw that, I thought that's like it's a school. Kids just obviously go nuts for Lamborghinis. And sure enough that that car took the win. Not not surprisingly, not surprising, yeah, but yeah, it was great and just great vibes.

Speaker 2:

You know it's funny whenever I take Luke and Adam to the cars and coffee meats and you know, even just the Porsche, only car shows. Yeah, they know how much I love Porsche and they understand that I have a Porsche. It's like, hey guys, are you excited about today? Yeah, will there be any Lamborghinis? All they want to see the Lamborghinis.

Speaker 1:

Of course, of course. But think about it. I mean, like, even for me as a kid, you know I would see Porsches, I would see 9-Elevens around. You never saw a Lamborghini. You saw it literally at the start of the cannonball run which my brother and I used to watch every Saturday night, and that was it. You'd never saw one in real life. They may as well have been a spaceship.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, to see one when you're a kid, that's pretty special, yeah yeah, well, I mean, if I saw a guards raid 930 to me right now and as a long time you know Porsche fan boy, I think that would have blown my mind yeah, yeah, it was pretty sweet and actually the the GT3 RS I think from memory, was a lava orange 991 Gen 1 and there's something about a lava orange GT3 RS.

Speaker 1:

I think the first 991 GT3 RS I ever saw was lava orange, so to me it's in that car. That's the color. Yeah and yeah, just looked, just looked ace, looked so so yeah yeah, I'm just trying to think out of frame of the GT.

Speaker 2:

You know it was a GT3 in lava orange, but even so, you know, wasn't the RS, but it was just absolutely, absolutely stunning, absolutely electric well, so that's pretty cool, so is this gonna become like an annual event in your part of the bush.

Speaker 1:

Look it may be. I'm not sure, because I know that again. Ashana, I think he is in his final year of school this year, so whether somebody picks up the mantle and runs with it next year only time will tell. I think they did do it last year, though. So anyway, fingers crossed. It was a. It was a really cool event, and I don't get along to that many car meets, and so to go to one that was in the afternoon it was a beautiful day actually that just had a really cool vibe and, like I say, live music and the live music was all was all done by the students, so it just I don't know just had this real cool laid back sort of community vibe to it. It wasn't really so much about the cars, it was just a cool, a cool event to go and do and and really well run. So, yeah, hats off and congrats to the school for doing yeah, yeah, that's awesome good job, good job so I see you've been well. I mean, what do we wait? What are we calling the new car? Did we decide? We talked about this with Mark and Ashma. Where do we land? Bluey-tooie, he's the thing I can't like. I want to just sit here and tear shreds off you for how lame that name is. But yeah, my car's called little green because literally when, when I first had it, every time we'd go anywhere the kids would ask me. They basically wanted to know if we were taking the 964 or my Jeep, which is white, and they just say, are we going in big white or little green? So it just became little green.

Speaker 2:

So that's no, no more creative than bluey-tooie you know what, I would be perfectly happy if someone came up with another name and another suggestion. But yeah, bluey-tooie just seemed to be funny and, just you know, kind of flows off the tongue. Yeah, I love it so have you it.

Speaker 1:

We're driving. What have you? What have we done? Done? Some put some miles well.

Speaker 2:

I have actually, yeah, and this is the one bomber actually to report back is that I didn't make it to Rensport reunion is I tried, gave it a really good go. So I was out in the 991, out in bluey-tooie, still managed to do just over 2000 miles. Day one drove down from Minnesota to Kansas City. I met it with my friend, michael of Michael Motor and Meets fame on on YouTube, yeah, who didn't come in? His martini livery covered 996 because he sold it. He arrived in his.

Speaker 1:

So I think that counts for sale.

Speaker 2:

Right, go for sale. Gone, it's gone. Well, I think he got bit by the book. You know, because, because we talk a lot and and no-transcript. I think you know jay read recently sold a car and chris sold a car and michael is like the only one who hasn't yet sold a car series like well, you know fuck you guys. But he arrived in his off-road capable cayenne, you know, jacked up, amazing, amazing tires, amazing wheels. You know he's got the, he's got the skid plates, he's got the front bumper in the rear bumper, kind of you know, it's just, it's it's tight, really good gen one cayenne off-road. So he and I left from Kansas City and then drove to Denver the next day, you know, really really nice drive. But on day three I was starting to get reports from home that my middle son, adam, was playing up and he and I really close and yada, yada, yada. Long story short, I got halfway through the Rockies and I was just like Michael, I'm gonna have to turn around, like I can have to just go home see my boy. So I did the right move with, you know dad, life and it took me it's do. You know it took me the best part of two days to get home from the Rocky Mountains. But instead of a nine day trip via California and rent sport reunion ended up doing a four day trip just by the Rockies and made it home. But anyway, the 991 performed so well. It is such a nice car to drive. I just I absolutely love it and I'll talk more about it in a second. But what I do want to say is when we got to Brackenridge in the middle of the Rocky Mountains, michael was starting to talk on the radio about wouldn't it be good if we could find some off-road kind of adventure, and it just so happened that we passed the head of a trail. I parked my car on the side of the road in the middle of the mountains, jumped in with Michael and we spent the best part of an hour or so driving dude up this Boulder laden passage in the mountains. He was driving and I was in the passenger seat with the drone and it was awesome. After share some of the footage with you, he did really well. I'm just amazed at how well I can perform, but I tell you what. It's pretty difficult trying to navigate trees and boulders with a drone when you sat in the passenger seat being thrown around.

Speaker 1:

Wait that's a that's a surprise to you.

Speaker 2:

Well, I suppose it shouldn't be, but man, that's a really capable car. I was like absolutely blown away has he done that sort of?

Speaker 1:

has he done that sort of off-roading before?

Speaker 2:

little bit. Yeah, since he bought the car about a year ago he's been doing quite a lot of it and there are quite a few, you know, sort of mud trails and dirt trails and that sort of stuff, where he lives down in Mississippi but there I don't think there are too many mountains in that part of town. So the part of town, that part of the country, but in the mountains of course there were plenty. Yeah yeah, you know, we started off and I was like, oh, this is gonna be fairly easy, you know. Just, it's rocky, it's not too bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then all of a sudden you know you can feel the car like leaning all the way to the right and you realize, okay, that boulders probably the size you know of a of a basketball, and then that one's even bigger and that one's even bigger, and he's continuing to try and climb over them. Are we gonna get stuck?

Speaker 1:

That's, that's amazing, and so did you drive. Forgive my ignorance, but in the Rockies, are there any that there's? There's twisties through that, did you?

Speaker 2:

have to sort of experience the car In its, in its, let's say, natural habitat yeah, I really did mean the first days, all the way to Kansas City is cornfield straight boring, yeah. Yeah, from Kansas City to Denver it's pretty much the same. You just drive through the great planes. But on day three, driving through the Rockies, day four, driving through Wyoming and into Minnesota, I was doing all county roads and it was just, it was. It was quite literally, I would say 800 of the thousand miles I did over the last two days with twisty internees Absolutely phenomenal and definitely a lesson for me to avoid the interstates which are basically just straight lines. But I was amazed. I went from Breckenridge, I went north for like two or three hours and it was all twisty turnies, staying off the highways, just staying on the county roads. Wyoming was absolutely spectacular Mountains on the left, prairie on the right and then the county roads take you through just lots of canyons and undulating hills and there are deer everywhere, there are buffalo everywhere. It's just gorgeous. So I really do feel like I got to test the car, you know, pushing it into corners and I was pulling out of corners. The left and the right had sport mode on at the windows up, at the windows down, just absolutely full throttle a couple of times and of course, I think Wyoming is one of the least populated states in the country. Yeah, and you know, without incriminating myself, let's just say I nearly incriminated myself. Yeah, and it's incredible what that car is capable of, just absolutely incredible. And every now and again I find the sort of like perfect setup where there was a straight enough piece of road going into a corner with mountains and no cars on the road. So I actually came to a full stop, took a breath, did launch control and I just started again. It was just so cool. But I love it, man, I really love it. And the turbocharged engine performed beautifully. No kind of feeling of that you know, sort of turbo lag, the sound of the exhaust with sports mode on valves open. I'm just, you know it's awesome.

Speaker 1:

Do you recall, because it's been a few years now since you sold your first gen 991. So I'm interested to hear if it feels familiar to that, which I imagine it would, but also if you can speak to the differences, or is there just too much of a time lapse between the two?

Speaker 2:

No, no, I can probably still speak to that, and I actually driven quite a few 991s over the course of the last couple of years. Since selling mine, all naturally aspirated to sort of have a good feel for it. You know, there are a couple of minor but very important aesthetic differences which a lot of 991s always jump to, which is the tail lights and the eyebrow running lights on the front.

Speaker 1:

So so can I do. I got to interrupt you there because you remember when, because obviously you took your and, for anyone not not aware of this, any listeners James had a first gen 991 and basically retrofitted the second gen 991 tail lights and front bumper set up right just to put the sports bumper on the front of the 991.1.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, the rear. Oh, you didn't do the rear end. I upgraded to the 991.2.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, okay, okay. So it's funny because I remember when the when the first gen 991 came out the first time I saw one on the road I've spoken about this before, I remember it vividly. It was a white one that passed me going through a tunnel and so my first kind of rolling picture of that car was a rear and I sped up to stay with. It was a rear three quarter angle of it and I remember just looking at the tail lights and thinking they're amazing, they're so good. So I fell in love with that first gen 991 when it came out because I really thought they'd nailed the design. And I have to be honest that the second gen I wasn't as convinced by. But it's funny how, over time now I really think the tail lights on that second gen and the front and that just that little air duct on the lower Rear bumper just a couple of little details that are minor aesthetic differences, but I really do think they add quite a bit.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I would agree and I know loads of 991 owners that sort of feel the same. To be honest, as much as I love the 3D tail lights of the dot 2, the dot 1 tail lights never bothered me. They were a little no, absolutely no two dimensional, but they look great. And I think the first time I saw one on the road was from the same kind of angle and I remember thinking what, what, what happened to the back of that 911? It looks great. But the the front of the dot ones with the, the eyebrow kind of you know indicators and running lights underneath the headlights, I always just felt like they were just a bit clumsy. You go back to the 997 dot two. I think the same thing. I look at the 997 dot one and they are quite clumsy on that car as well and relatively big compared to the headlights, but at least a simple, you know, and they're. You know the lines are pretty straight and so on. But when the dot 2 991 came out I just thought they nailed the front end. You know. All the focus is now back to the headlights Because the, the LED strips are much thinner and just simple strips and they don't detract from the headlights at all, and I think there's even, just like the aerodynamics, on the front bumper. There are two little grooves that Bring the friends and to life a little bit more with the dot two and we're talking really mind things, you know yeah. I'm sure, if I put a dot one in a dot two in front of Ruthie she wouldn't know the difference. No, no, no, but there's that for sure. But what's funny is Sitting in an almost identical 991 cockpit to what I had with the dot one. You've got to be I think you've got to be really a Porsche fanboy to notice the differences immediately. I mean, it's basically the airbag in the steering wheel and the fact that the PCM screen Just sort of fits into the dash a little more seamlessly. Yes, yeah, yeah. But apart from that, yeah, you're sitting in basically an identical cockpit, almost identical cockpit, but it's like a completely different animal, a completely different experience in the. Okay, it's still fast, it still has all the great handling and you still feel like you're in a Porsche cockpit. But you know, it's almost like Jacqueline Hyde. You know you're sitting with the person with a completely different personality one minute, and you know you go from one to the other. Yeah, I think, unless you I mean unless you, you know, drive them back to back maybe the differences aren't that obvious. But yeah, to me, having owned a 991 dot one a couple of years ago and I'm now sitting in a nine dot Dot two, I can tell the difference immediately and it's, it's, it's epic, it's just like the lower end talk really makes the car feel much more powerful and much more responsive. The spool of the turbos gives you that sort of just fanboy adrenaline rush kind of every time you hear them. I love him, absolutely love it.

Speaker 1:

That's that's so good to hear and it's great to hear to that you found a different mode of getting across the countryside. You know, because so often when you and I talk about these drives that you do and the the sort of commute that you need to do to get to these amazing locations in great roads, like you've found some, some new ways of getting there that that are fun on the way there, at least, in this instance, on the way back yeah, yeah, I think so, and actually next time I go to the Rocky Mountains I'll probably retrace my steps through South Dakota.

Speaker 2:

But you know the as much as I enjoyed the 800 miles or the 700 miles of that final 1000 miles on the return leg, the last two or three hundred miles, basically from the eastern side of South Dakota to Minnesota, was just once again mind-numbingly boring. So even in that you just for some reason here in the Midwest there's always some kind of commute to get to decent roads because you just got to escape the cornfields. Basically, what's going on with your rally? Ah, winter rally, oh, winter rally.

Speaker 1:

Yes, Well, yeah, so we had the winter rally. Gosh, it feels so long ago now. It was look, it was a great event and look, as promised, I think I said so. I sent round not a poster, but just like a mini flyer thing on our WhatsApp group and I think I said it said winter rally, august, whatever the date was pissing rain, good time.

Speaker 2:

Well, it's so. That's a thing, isn't it? You say, every time you do these, these rallies I don't know if it's just in the winter, you often find rain, no dude, not often or what.

Speaker 1:

It doesn't matter if it's winter, spring, summer, autumn Every time we do a rally and it's not just it's not just a little bit of rain, it's, it's like catastrophic conditions every time, yeah. So I feel like and, to be honest, last year, when I did the first winter rally and it's just a single day event, but when I did the first one last year, it was actually sunny all day and everyone was wearing T-shirts it was amazing and I there was a part of me that thought, OK, this is where I've gone wrong. I've been trying to organize rallies in the times when I think the weather is going to be exceptionally good and yet invariably we run into bad weather. So maybe it's like the George Costanza thing, right, Like I should do the opposite of everything.

Speaker 2:

I think I should do, and maybe my life would be better.

Speaker 1:

So last year when we did the winter rally, it was a beautiful day. So there was a little part of me in the back of my head thinking this year could be the same, but it was not. So, look, we set off and it was. It was bucketing rain, but it was, it was, it was. So it was still a great day, and partly because, you know, typically we head for the mountains and we have roads that we that we drive week in, week out, and then when we do something like the Alpine Range Rally, those roads that we drive often then feed into other Alpine roads. Yeah, because it's winter, we try and avoid the Alpine regions just because we know we can hit snow. So we actually take a completely different route than what we would usually do. And so that's, that's great. The roads are different. Are they as good and technical as some of the others we drive? Not necessarily, but I think everyone really just appreciates a different experience. Also, one of the big differences is it's a lot more open. You know, so often if you've looked at any of my rally videos so often we are driving through the sort of Aussie bush, let's say yeah, but these are all much more elevated roads with beautiful views of rolling green hills. It sort of looks like it could be in Wales or somewhere, so so it's brilliant. A few highlights for me One was my buddy Kale. My buddy Kale has a 73, 72, 73. Sorry, kale, tangerine 911T. Oh, and I've seen this one for some of the yeah and for some of the day. He was driving in front of me and, man, I was so impressed with the way he was hustling that car, this idea that that you know the long hoods are cool, but you know if you're going to hustle then you want something more modern. He was. Could I have gone a little bit quicker in that moment? Yeah, maybe, but it was brilliant. I was really happy going. The speed we were going, it wasn't slow by any stretch and he was just hustling along in this thing and you could just see it moving around. You could see what a great job he was doing driving it it was. It was brilliant. And so when we stopped for lunch, we actually agreed to do a car swap. So I was, I was so excited I've never driven this car and I've only ever driven I had a brief, a brief run in my friend Irwin's long hood. I can't really recall what that was like. I literally drove it for five minutes and then I had my buddy Gerard's Target for a couple of days. So I got to drive that and really get a feel for that. That was a great car. But interestingly, kail's car is just the ride quality is amazing. And the engine I can't believe the amount of torque and the amount of reward you get for revving it all the way out. It was, it was incredible. Now, I must confess that as we took off to to this was after lunch. We took off, I was in his car, it was wet, so I was being I was being very cautious. I'm not sure what the I can't remember what the tires are. By comparison, I think he took off like a scolded cat in 1964. But it did take me a while. It there's a definite adjustment that you go through because you know, suddenly you can feel everything, you can really feel the car moving around you and for how wonderful this car is, I feel like it wants some time spent just buttoning up everything inside. There's a lot of like really nasty rattles in this car. Oh really, I'm trying to be nuts, but, but, but anyway. But then what happened was somebody came on the radio and actually said guys, be careful, there's oil on the road. And because the road was wet you know, when you see an oil slick on a wet road, it sort of has that rainbow color. Yeah, and a few people had quite scary moments on this. And in fact we found out on the news that night that someone actually had a crash right nearby, about two kilometers from where we were, and because just they just went spearing off the road and actually someone was killed. So it was, it was, it was absolutely awful. So, look, I really slowed down at that point. But then, once we hit the dry, I drove the car. I drove the car long enough, I think probably for 25 minutes, half an hour maybe, on some really lovely flowing, twisty roads where I did get into a great rhythm with it and it was just. It is such a fun car. It is such a fun car and immensely capable. However, I will say this when we finally stopped and swapped cars again right before getting onto the highway to drive home, I got into a little green Dude. It felt like a GT3. It was just. It felt rock solid. The gear shift felt like a bolt action rifle and the acceleration was just incredible. I thought, wow, talk about, talk about sort of adjusting and realigning yourself. It was, it was, it was brilliant. But I tell you, I tell you the thing about these, these rallies and these drives so much of it comes down to the people you're with. Yeah, and you know, because invariably something happens right. It doesn't matter how well you plan it, there's always a something. So I try it, I do try and be meticulous in the planning. I actually put a good amount of pressure on myself that I want everybody to come away and say that was a great day, yeah, and so in the morning, when we stopped for coffee, I got a message from the place that I'd organized for lunch saying they couldn't open that day. Something had happened, didn't understand what, so they weren't going to be able to sit us down. And this was in some little town in the middle of nowhere and I thought so I'm thinking, oh shit, I'm going to have to organize something else here we get into town, A few people were ahead of us, they just rolled into. There was a brewery that did pizzas. Everyone just rolled in there, happy, no problem, rolling with the punches. There was one of the roads that we were that kind of connected to two roads was actually closed and hadn't shown on the maps, and so it's. You know, no one jumped on the radios and said oh well, this is. You know, what are we going to do now? We just kept going. My buddy Will I've got a shout out to him because he opened. We use this app called scenic. It is, I think, far and away the best navigation app there is and Will's just whipped it open, actually edited the map on the fly while he's driving, and then just starts radioing everyone yes, just keep going, we're going to get to this road. You're going to turn left here. You know, just people being proactive and sorting things out, versus people saying, oh well, this isn't what I signed up for, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, so that's great. One of the things we did see really demonstrated is just how important radios are to take. It really makes such a difference. I mean, for starters, with the safety issue that we had with this oil spill, because the oil slick ran for you know, four or five kilometers maybe. Yeah, so two or three miles. It was a long way that we were having to be careful and I think, from memory, my mate Simon was up the front so he was constantly updating people and warning people and those sorts of things are just that's where having the radios is just so valuable. Yeah, and you know also, if someone you know there was a dude, george, who came along with us, he's such a good guy and I think there was one point where a few people were like hey, george, do you mind if we jump in front of you? Yeah, no problem, they jump in front of him. So it's such a good thing just from a safety perspective and also an enjoyment perspective. But yeah, look, overall, just it just kind of shows even when the weather is rubbish. I mean, I must confess I'm over driving in the rain. I'm really over driving in the rain. But even when you do, if you're out with a good group of people and you're driving amazing roads and in these cars, it's still, it's still a really, really good time, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, totally. The radios for my group over here in Minnesota were a game changer for us. You know I always joke thinking you know sort of car enthusiasts you're. We're a funny bunch, you know, we like having friends and this is a social kind of thing, but we spend the majority of our time alone in our own cars. But, like, once you introduce the radios into the mix, though, you're getting the best of both worlds. You're alone in your car, yes, You're pushing it to the limit, You're doing whatever you want to do and you're, at the same time, you're still connected to everybody. It was. It was just like, yeah, like, like I said, complete game changer for us over here.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, great, great. And actually I, like you know, we use them obviously to communicate everything from you know potholes or cyclists on the road or any sort of hazards, obviously, or to keep track of one another, but also just for banter while you're out on the road.

Speaker 2:

Oh, it's hard.

Speaker 1:

Because there's oftentimes you're in a transport stage, a liaison stage, let's say, between twisties and another set of twisties. Yeah, and you know, it's so nice I'll hear. I'll hear my buddy, Al, just pop up on the radio and say to whoever PJ you know, PJ, your car looks incredible in my mirrors. Yeah, sure it's just you know, or someone will, just someone will be playing some stupid song and they'll just, they'll just hit the talk button on their walkie talkie for 10 seconds and it's just. I don't know, it's just. You're like oh wow, who's listening to Stevie Ray Vaughan right now? Yeah, it's just cool, I just like it.

Speaker 2:

So on the agenda this week we've got a philosophical discussion which you've posed, and I'm actually kind of interested to see where this goes. To be honest, I wonder how people are going to react to this. So you want to, you want to take us into this?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'm interested to hear how you react to it as well, obviously, because I I'm not sure I have a position on this question and so actually what I want to do is kind of unpack it together, tease it out together and and see what we think. So it's a pretty simple thing. I want to pose a question Do we all just need to calm the fuck down? So you know why do we just cause? Truly, we all get really outraged with Porsche all the time. You know, you and I talked about the ST on the pod and you know how we both love the car, but we're so worried that the wrong people will buy the 1963 examples. And I know the Porsche talk podcast. They talked about the same thing. We talked about the Spider RS. We said it's not a real rent sport because it's not a homologated racing car. Yeah, so fucking what? The truth is that 99.999% of the people pissing and moaning about not being able to get a 911 ST allocation you and me included, or in no position to request an allocation for the 911 ST in the first place. So why do we get so pissed off about it? You know, you think about it. There were 991 911 hours. That gave Porsche actually the confidence to put a manual in the GT3. So a lot more people benefited from that. And then, finally, how arrogant are we to decide that we're the only ones that truly enjoy our Porsches in an authentic way? I mean, you and I, between the two of us, actually enjoy our cars quite differently, and sometimes I love ripping through the hills with friends, driving my car on the edge of what I can safely do on a public road, but then sometimes I like driving on my own at normal speed. Well, sometimes I like daily driving it, and sometimes I like going to wineries with my wife or go into cars and coffee. So who the hell am I to say that one is any more valid, or any of those is any more valid, than the person who wants to protect their investment and enjoy their car sparingly? If someone just wants to cruise to cars and coffee and have bragging rights or drive up and down the PCH and do nothing else but get coffee, why is that any less valid? So I just asked do we all need to stop getting shitty at Porsche for releasing limited numbered cars that are incredible, that we can't afford anyway, and start acknowledging that it's brilliant that they have the sack to release those cars in the first place and stop being so outraged by it, bloody hell.

Speaker 2:

Bloody hell. Okay, there's an awful lot to unpack there.

Speaker 1:

There's a lot to unpack?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly, and I've also got to be very careful about how I approach this, because it's probably just going to shine a spotlight on my natural biases and completely warped personality.

Speaker 1:

Well, dude, and let me say, let me say, because all of this right, this is, I'm guilty of all of this. I'm guilty of every bit of judgment I just talked about, I'm guilty of every bit of outrage. So you know, hand on heart, I'm not suggesting in any way that it's this is the behavior of other people. It's actually been the behavior of me, but I also know it's the behavior of a lot of other people. So I just, I just wanted to pose the question.

Speaker 2:

So the question is really should Andy Gawnt calm the fuck down?

Speaker 1:

Is Andy Gawnt in danger of cardiac arrest?

Speaker 2:

I think so. Or violently murdering some poor guy that's just taken out a brand new ST to cars and coffee. Fuck you.

Speaker 1:

First drive.

Speaker 2:

Huh Well, actually just off subject a little bit. I heard yesterday that Porsche are going to force ST owners to lease the car for the first year to try and avoid flipping. I don't know if that's true or not, but I don't even know if that's even going to work as well, because if I'd, happily anyway, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1:

That's interesting.

Speaker 2:

I don't know, you know, I think you take any scenario, you take any kind of niche, any hobby, and there are always going to be those people that are so absorbed and interested by it that they live to talk about anything to do with the brand, anything to do with the football club, anything to do with the players. You know anything to do with the sports.

Speaker 1:

Very true.

Speaker 2:

I can sometimes just listen to my dad and my brother talk for hours about, you know, whatever they're talking about, about this one particular football player or this one particular scenario and I'm like it was a game that happened weeks ago. Just who gives a fuck, move on. But to them it's really important to discuss the finest levels of minutiae of all of those different scenarios that interest and excite them, and I think that's, I think that's part of it. But I don't know to try and answer your question as directly as I can. Yeah, for sure, I think we do need to calm down when it comes to, you know, sort of getting outraged with Porsche, because, for all the reasons you just said, I mean, could you imagine if Porsche just turned around and was like well, okay, we're not going to release any of these more variants, we're just going to churn out, we're just going to churn out Carreras in the thousands and thousands, and thousands forever. Yeah. Or you know what? Yeah, you've got, if you want a sports car, you got a Carrera, but we're focusing all of our R&D into more efficient Cayenne's and McCann's, you know, and Homer Simpson's car. We'd be absolutely gutted. I mean, that's it. In some respects I'm like well, it's nice having all these other things in the Porsche portfolio, but I just, you know, I want the rainbow of 9-11's to choose from. So yeah, I can definitely see that.

Speaker 1:

I mean, you know, if you look at something like the ST or even the R back in the day, you've got to reach a point where you stop worrying about who's buying it, because we all know who's buying it for the most part and how it's going to be used. And, like I say, it's really easy to get really judgy about the way somebody chooses to use their car, but that's an individual choice that everyone's entitled to make. And for everyone who does just use the car for what we believe to be the wrong reasons, let's say I'm sure there are just as many who'll buy something like an ST and genuinely use it and drive the hell out of it. And good luck to all of them. As long as, as long as Porsche keeps creating these cars. I'm trying to get myself into a mindset. That is you know what. I'm just really glad that car exists and having watched the reviews that all dropped last week on the 9-11 ST, it's really interesting. They talked about how there was a there's a chassis engineer in the GT department at Porsche who was given the job of tuning the chassis on the ST and it took a year to do it. And so all of the journos who have driven this car have also been given access to, at the same time, a GT3 touring, and they're driving actually reasonably poorly conditioned roads so that you could see how well the ST actually handles on the road. And everyone that I've heard talk about the comparative experience of driving the GT3 touring has said the difference is night and day in terms of the way that the car tracks, the way the car handles, the way it tackles bumps and the like. So you have to think, therefore and again, this still isn't going to impact you or me. Maybe one day it will. But the next gen, the 992.2 GT3, do you think that's going to have the same suspension setup it has currently? Of course not it will. It will then inherit the amazing work that's been done on the ST, the same way that the gen two 991 GT3 inherited the manual gearbox, because Porsche had the confidence to do it based on demand. Yeah, so there is always a trickle down effect from these halo cars. Again, does that affect you and me buying 10 year old Carreras? Well, not now, but maybe in 15 years when I decide I've finally got enough money to buy a second gen 992 GT3, I get the benefit of that. So fuck it, it's great.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, it's very true, yeah, and you think about the hybrid engine that's in the 918, that that trickle down effect won't be felt for maybe another few years and ultimately that's a maybe a 10 year kind of path or longer. All of that super car influence and super car testing and technology and design will have a huge influence on the hybrid engines that are coming, that we haven't yet. I've gotten fully on board with and guess what they're going to be amazing, regardless what you think they're going to be amazing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, they are. And do you know what? Even the fact I mean the fact that I mean the fact that Porsche are still producing their highest level sports cars With manual gearboxes is incredible. The, but also the fact that they even said do you know what? Let's have an enthusiast based career. Let's do a career T. That is for the, for the enthusiast, the driver, the person who wants to take the car out on the weekend but can't afford a GT product. Let's do that there. There is so much that Porsche is doing to appeal to what is a really broad segment. Right, you've got people who buy, who buy 9, 11 careers or career S's to daily drive and may never take them on a on a twisty road. They just love the design of the car, love being seen in the car, all of those things. And then there are the enthusiasts with money. But then there are also the enthusiasts who have less money. They really actually, I think, meeting so many different market segments and doing a really good job of it. Yeah, I don't know. I just I just thought there was so much, I had so much negativity around the ST and none of it from us included and none of it was based on the car itself. It was all. We're all up in arms about how we couldn't get an allocation, as if otherwise you and I were gonna call our local Porsche dealer and say sign me up, I want one. I can't do that, so I'm worried about.

Speaker 2:

So I think this is this. This is where you know, kind of human nature comes into it, right? I mean, how, how much of this do you think and this is where I'm gonna really expose the way you and I think how much of this is cognitive dissonance? You know the fact that Are we being triggered by something that we are envious of and that we really want to have ourselves?

Speaker 1:

I can't have it, so I don't want him to have exactly exactly you know what?

Speaker 2:

I can't afford this, or I can't get there and I'm probably never gonna get it, so I'm gonna throw rocks at it.

Speaker 1:

Of course. Of course we do and we go. We go I can't have it and look, that person can have it and they're not even using it the way I would use it. They're not using it. Probably they don't deserve it as much as I do, so I'm gonna start throwing my toys out of the and stomping my feet and I'm gonna go stand in the corner and have a big sook about it. You're right, it's, it's human nature. But you know what I think you're actually think you're onto something the way that you know, every Monday morning, quarterback wants to talk about the game on the weekend and the poor choices that the coach made and all of these things. We do do it right, you, I think you're so right. Where we're so invested in whatever our hobby and passion is that we always believe that when we're talking with friends, that we could do this better.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we could make better decisions in the portion of department or, well, the coach of the team well, and so that takes me back to so many of my my wonderful friends, certainly back from Liverpool, were growing up who have these very heated debates about you know the value of the quality of a player on a particular scenario, and most of it's coming from the fact that I could probably do better. Why? Don't, I have to strike up a little. What could you get?

Speaker 1:

I know what you know we'll throw will be talking about formula one and you'll talk about Lance stroll and you'll be like, oh my god, he messed up again on the weekend. The guys are more on. What's he even doing out there? Has you got to drive? It's just because he's dad owns the team. Rah, rah rah really you're gonna do better I literally running around with nineteen of the best drivers in the world and doing pretty well, actually.

Speaker 2:

so so got this on a related I think it's a related topic. Just, you know, bad with me for a second and I know he's gonna be listening my make Chris, carbon fiber, chris on Instagram, who's just recently bought his GT3 touring okay, oh, couldn't be happy does he deserve it, though I hope you're not just taking that to cars and coffee.

Speaker 1:

Well, otherwise they'll be silent judge exactly not so silent.

Speaker 2:

So, all right, so, chris, three touring, he knows, he knows that that's my dream car, right, and so we haven't had that discussion. He's got the GT3 touring. It's beautiful, the spec is absolutely beautiful. Okay, and it's yeah, I'll be honest, it's not detracting from the excitement I'm having with my own box standard 991.2 Carrera. But I've had to really temper my reactions to a couple of the things that he's been talking about doing with his, with his car, and it's because I'm like, jesus Christ, I really want that car. I wouldn't do that to that car. What are you doing? Don't do it like. Well, it's his car, I'm doing whatever he wants. But it's kind of turned into a little bit of a joke because when he first bought the car, they came with the car had the R style stripes on, not the GT3 style stripes, the R stripes on. And yeah, yeah, and he was asking me for my advice and I was trying to be Really politically correct and just like, well, no, it looks pretty cool, do you want to want? And in my head, and just like, get him off, get him off, get him off, get him off, get him off, get him off I just really. You can't have our stripes on a GT3 touring. What are you doing?

Speaker 1:

what can I ask? Can I ask why you can't what's what's?

Speaker 2:

Because it's not an R. It's not an R. The GT3 touring so special, it's so special. So anyway, he got the car, he took them off. But of the last few weeks he's been talking to us and the guys about, you know, putting the stripes on again, and the R stripes have come back up in conversation and I did it. I did it first. I'm trying really hard to be politically correct and like give him a very kind of objective balance sort of you know what you could, you couldn't, kind of answer. It's gotten to the point where I'm just like don't you fucking dare? No, do not fucking dare to, and then just I feel bad doing that again. It's like some, my car, you can do whatever he wants. He's been Taking that and now he's thinking about changing his gear shifter. He found a gear shifter that came from a 911 R which has its own, our flavor kind of distinct style was like what do you think Should I? Should I get that and put that in my, in my car? Now? I think it's probably because it's carbon fiber and that's why Chris wants it. When he came to me with this one, there was no pleasantries, there was no political correctness. I was like do not fucking do it, I am gonna kill you.

Speaker 1:

So I just, I just I just wanted to clarify this. So it's for you, it's like it's not necessarily that it's a bad design, it's just that it says, if you've got the stripes on, it says it's a 911 R, but then it's actually not. So people will be like, huh, you're trying to make it an R but it's not. Is that, is that sort of the vibe?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, kind of yeah, that's it exactly. It's not on R. It's not on R. Don't put the R stripes on it, just don't do it.

Speaker 1:

Now, to be fair, I'm the one that put the 3 body. Can I just say, yeah, or it's like carbon ceramic break. Dude exactly I was gonna go yellow calipers dude, I was gonna go there.

Speaker 2:

This, this, this conversation about the, about the shifter, was happening quite literally as I was painting my base, carol of this yellow.

Speaker 1:

How do you, how do you spell hypocrite exactly exactly, exactly so.

Speaker 2:

Is Chris doing anything wrong? No, is it just purely driven by the envy that I have for his GT3 touring? Of course it is, because how can I have that conversation with Chris while I'm there painting the fourth fucking coat of my yellow paint on my non carbon ceramic breaks?

Speaker 1:

Well, I'll give you credit, because, because, as you started saying the R thing, I thought oh man, you are just setting this up for me so well, I can't wait to get into you about the brakes, but you're, you know you're putting your hand up.

Speaker 2:

Totally, totally, in fact I think I was. I was even, honestly, I was replying to that text thread about the shifter while I was painting those breaks and once I realized the hypocrisy I just nearly walked away.

Speaker 1:

There is, though. There's a. I've seen a car near me and 991.2 that has GT2 RS decal on the door and it's a base Carrera and it's like I think at that level, like I'm actually fine with a stripes if you want them, I'll make allowances for yellow calipers because they actually look good, but once you start claiming it, once you start putting badges and decals saying your car is something it's not, I sort of go yeah, sure about that although they're again, if it's an old one, and again, you know what it gives a fuck. Why do I care?

Speaker 2:

exactly. We just need to calm the fuck down, andy, calm down.

Speaker 1:

We need to calm the fuck down. Someone else is calm down but like.

Speaker 2:

I'm the guy that put the GT3 body kit on the base Carrera 997.1. The justification for that for me, which which allowed me to sleep at night was that it was a factory option when you bought the base Carrera, you were allowed to select the AeroKit. You could get the AeroKit Now. To be fair, these days they do have AeroKits that you can choose, but they don't allow you to get the GT3 AeroKit or the GT3 RS AeroKit like they used to.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but I actually don't have a problem with an AeroKit either, because as long as you're not putting a GT3 badge or decal on the car, I think that's fine. Like I've got, yeah, my buddy Al, he's got a 996 and he's got the GT3 kit on it. It looks that car looks incredible, and he's not claiming it's a GT3. He's just got the AeroKit on it. It's like when I had the whale tail on little green. It's not like I put a RS America badge on the back. I didn't, I just liked the tail.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, totally AeroKits. Fine, especially if they're factory AeroKits. But yeah, you see decals. The stripes that go from hood to deck lid to me is the same as the actual GT3 badge that goes on the back of the car.

Speaker 1:

It's so distinctive. It is distinctive. I would grant you that. Are you gonna do that? What was that spoiler you put on your 991, the Mochama?

Speaker 2:

Oh, the Mochama yeah.

Speaker 1:

Thor's hammer.

Speaker 2:

The tail of Asgard on the back of my 991.1. Yeah, you know there is a Mochama Evo Ducktail available for the 991.2. And again, here I am, the Hippocrates. I actually am gonna try and stay away from doing too much to this car because I love how it is right now and I love the back end of the dot two 991. And so maybe in some way putting that Mochama spoiler on the back of my dot one was in some way related to the fact that I didn't have the tail lights that I liked at the time, cause I think I did that before I ended up doing the retrofit of the tail lights. So the man who's just painted his calipers yellow is saying that he's gonna try and keep his car as stock as possible. Oh, and I've put a yellow sports chrono in the dash oh, and there wasn't a sports chrono in the dash before that and I also did the yellow tack face, but that's you know. Oh, I've also thrown-.

Speaker 1:

And that's all just fun.

Speaker 2:

I put carbon fiber everywhere. Of course I have. Oh no, I know, I know, but yeah, like-.

Speaker 1:

So hey, when, what about? What about? When's the car being lowered?

Speaker 2:

I do that time it gets lowered every time I get in the car. It doesn't need to be like no, it's it come on, come on. So I it's time. So for this car, I because the changes I'm doing, I think, are all gonna be sort of performance focused I think I probably will lower this car, but I'm not gonna be doing it because I want to. I'm doing it because-.

Speaker 1:

I'm just doing to shut.

Speaker 2:

Andy up, Just to shut you up. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Well, cause Tommy's on you and about it now right. Like I sent you that video and now you guys are communicating.

Speaker 2:

So, so, actually, big, big, big shout out to Tommy L Garridge for all of the inspiration that has come from from him to me so far through his YouTube channel. With his, with his Carrera T, we actually tried to get him on a couple of weeks in a row. It didn't work out. He will be an upcoming guest on Curb and Canyon, but, yeah, he's started to take the piss of my ride heights, just like you and I don't know-. Oh, I noticed. Oh my God.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, very publicly, let's say yeah, yeah, I'm actually gonna say, guys, if you haven't checked out his YouTube channel, that's well worth a look. He's doing some. He's got this. I love his Carrera T Yellow. It's beautiful. Yeah gorgeous and he does really, he really cool mods. He's it's like auto amateur, but good, Sorry.

Speaker 2:

It's like auto amateur it's late, done right with a better car.

Speaker 1:

It's like auto professional. Oh my God. Oh my God, all right, so come on video of the week. What have you got for us?

Speaker 2:

Wait, what have I got? No, yeah, okay, I do have a video this week. You know well, that's not quite true. My friend Mark sent me a link to a video and was like, hey, this should be your video the week. And I was like, all right.

Speaker 1:

So oh, thank God. So I'm not actually validating you, I'm validating Mark.

Speaker 2:

Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely I did I choose this.

Speaker 1:

Okay, that's good. Did I bollocks?

Speaker 2:

No, Mark DiPietro and his awesome son Matthew. Thank you guys. You guys sent me the link to this epic video that I sent to you, Andy Gorns, as a suggestion, and your response.

Speaker 1:

What was my response? What was my response? Cause you always say that I shoot you down. What was my response?

Speaker 2:

You do. You actually said something like brilliant idea, James.

Speaker 1:

I'll tell you exactly what I said. Brilliant idea, James. I wholeheartedly endorsed this recommendation and thus validate your contribution to the video of the week segment. I mean, I don't know what else I can do to pander to your ego. It's, it's.

Speaker 2:

Dude, that was such a response. I did not get any sincerity from it whatsoever.

Speaker 1:

Dude, that was from the heart. How could you like? I poured it all out there.

Speaker 2:

But you see, part of my reaction was I'd only watched the first 30 seconds of this 20 minute video at the point that I sent you the link. That was the problem for me, man.

Speaker 1:

I looked and I'm like it's 29 minutes. When am I gonna watch that between now and then? So I had a quick, but you've clearly watched it all since. So you could give us a full, detailed report, what? What is the video of the week, James? Let's get into it.

Speaker 2:

All right, it's called Porsche, the super secret blue Porsche collection and it's on the Peterson Automotive Museum YouTube channel. They've got like over a hundred thousand subscribers and a lot of very nice videos, to be fair. But this video has been made about a private collector, a guy called Todd Blue, so all of his cars aren't blue, even though that's what the even, that's what the title suggests. But he's got this. He's got this garage that basically looks like a Porsche dealership and yeah, it does. I don't know what he does to make his money, but good on him. We're gonna start talking about jealousy and envy again in a second, I'm sure, but basically, if there is a Porsche car out there that has been idolized or has been, you know, just drooled over over the last 40 years or so, he will have one in this garage. It's incredible. He's got the 935 race car. He's got a 959. He's got a Carrera GT. He's got a 968 Turbo S. He's got a 930. He's got a GT2 RS. I'm pretty sure I saw a GT3 RS in there. He's got the slant nose. It's just absolutely incredible. It's like somebody looks into my.

Speaker 1:

You haven't watched it, have you? You're just ripping out names of models. No, no, no, no.

Speaker 2:

It's like I have actually watched it. It's like somebody looked into my brain and said, oh yeah, okay, fair enough, if you won the lottery, here are all the cars that you'd buy and let's shove them in this beautiful garage. And it's funny, you should say, actually Tommy L Garbage before his auto amateur done right. That's what I thought when I saw this video. I was like this type of video I wish I could make. I mean, you know, there's no driving. It's basically a guy walking around his private collection showing you all of his cars. But the cars are so phenomenal you just can't help but watch.

Speaker 1:

No, and look, there's a couple of highlight moments for me. The first is I'm amazed when in fact I just don't expect this to happen when I see a Porsche model of which I was previously unaware. And so there's a moment where he introduces the Porsche 597, aka the Jagdwagen, which was built as a prototype, 71 of them made in 1955, post-Second World War. It's basically a Jeep, Right, and I've never seen this car. I was like what the heck? How did I not know that existed? And it's the coolest looking thing ever and it's obviously been beautifully restored and it's got like. It's got an axe attached to the bonnet. I'm like, so you know, we're always talking about the post-apocalyptic car.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, right there it is.

Speaker 1:

I love. There's a moment where he has he has two G-body speedsters and one is a wide body, one's a narrow body. I didn't know the narrow body one was a thing or I didn't know. There were two different widths in that car and apparently the narrow body one is actually quite rare. I love that he has both. And then he's this moment really stuck with me. He has a 904 race car and the original engine sits on a stand and then he has a second engine in the car so he can take it to the track. But his story about why that car is so appealing, I just love this. It's not because he, you know, spent his years watching his youth, watching footage of the Targa Florida or any of these sorts of things. It's because the car looks like the cars that were in the cartoon speed racer. And as soon as he said it, I've never connected those dots and as soon as he said it I thought, holy shit, it does. Yeah, Actually, it does. So, yeah, it's a really cool vid. I really liked it too.

Speaker 2:

And, to be fair, a lot of the cars are blue. One of the ones that stood out for me was, I think it's a 356 in Bali blue and that's the blue, that sort of influenced bluey, my 996. And I'm looking at it now and I'm clearly, you know, didn't quite hit the Bali blue color. It's not identical, but, man, just what an absolute dream collection. Yeah, so if you basically want to just have one of those, you know what if I won the lottery kind of conversations and what would my Porsche collection look like? What would a dream collection look like? This is the video for you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, agreed, agreed. Well, I think that brings us to the end of another exciting, action packed, fun filled episode.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you everybody for checking in and for sticking with us, as we are always getting these episodes out on a regular basis. Tight schedule we keep here at Curb Canyon.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and let me say, guys, it's not through lack of this. Sounds like excuses, I know, but life and distance really does get in the way on these. Sometimes there's so many days where we're organized and then something happens a work thing happens, a family thing happens, whatever. So it does, but we I've got to say it honestly every time I sit down to record this I love having these conversations and I love the feedback and comments that you all send us. Thank, you so much it genuinely means a lot to us, so we will keep trying to bring you as much content as we can. We've got some rad guests coming up. Actually, there's actually quite a few lined up. So, yeah, keep tuning in, guys, stick with us. We love you all and really appreciate you or you sticking with us on the journey All right, but catch you in the next one.

Speaker 2:

Take care, guys. Ch сред.

Car Show and New Car Updates
Off-Road Adventure With a Porsche 991
Comparison of Porsche 991 Generations
Winter Rally
Porsche Enthusiast Behavior and New Models
Envy of GT3 Touring Modifications
Porsche Super Secret Blue Collection Conversation